let me hear your voice tonight (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
alexseanchai) wrote2019-06-03 07:06 pm
alexseanchai) wrote2019-06-03 07:06 pm
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math! we like math
So ![[tumblr.com profile]](https://www.tumblr.com/favicon.ico)
mlscience calculated, based on "Copycat" and the known size of the Mona Lisa, that Adrien is about 5'11", and therefore that Marinette is about 5'5".
Somebody else, I forget who and where, pari5-in-the-rain compared screencaps from S1 and S3 to conclude that Adrien has gotten taller. (Marinette may have too, but this argument rests on how the height difference has increased.) I am not sure how much taller, but Adrien has got to be over 6'.
Adrien and Marinette have grown up with post-Y2K medicine and plenty of food.1
The average height of French people in 2012 is 5'7.5" for men, 5'3" for women. So Marinette is a little on the tall side of average and Adrien is Tol. (Wikipedia's decade-older numbers for France show women half an inch to an inch taller, and men an inch to an inch and a half taller, than this article says.)
The smallpox vaccine hit in 1796. There is apparently Considerable Debate on the setting of Disney's Beauty and the Beast, but it looks like there's a good argument to be made for anything from 1770 to 1800. Given that the smallpox vaccine came about (the story goes) because whatshisface noticed milkmaids were often so beautiful because they so rarely caught smallpox because they had so frequently survived cowpox unscarred, dropping Marinette into Belle's village probably takes away Belle's "most beautiful girl in town" card. (Rather to Belle's relief—until she notices Marinette is (1) younger than Belle (2) likely to end up in serious trouble if Gaston catches her alone, given how much more ticked Gaston is every time Belle sees him after he's bothered Marinette.)
It's hard to get a bead on how tall Gaston is, but if he's not the tallest person in the village, he is certainly up there. (*snerk*) He also isn't outrageously tall compared to the rest of the village; he just looks it when standing next to LeFou.
Seventeenth-century Frenchmen were apparently about as tall on average as turn-of-the-millennium Frenchwomen. I am having a crap time finding anything quantitative about eighteenth-century French people, but apparently it wasn't till about the mid-1800s that improved nutrition and improved disease prevention started resulting in taller average people.
...Marinette, being 5'5" or 5'6", may be only an inch or two shorter than Gaston. Adrien, being at least seven inches taller than Marinette, is definitely rather taller than Gaston. And they both tower over Belle, who only comes up to Gaston's shoulder!
This is gonna make this crossover hella more amusing than I thought it would be...
(I'm trying to figure out right now how Marinette and Adrien plan to earn their keep while they're stranded in Belle's time. Marinette is confident in her sewing and mending, and once she gets accustomed to the kitchen facilities and ingredients, her cooking and baking; Adrien is making a lot of jokes about poor career choices, but, you know, he's tall, he's built. Until Belle and Maurice figure out there's a brain in there too, he's probably going to be doing a lot of lifting heavy things.)
update: found the character heights graphic. counting starting with the tallest, Tom Dupain is in group three, Ivan and Kim in four, and Adrien in six, out of thirteen or fourteen; Marinette's a nine. Etta and Ella Césaire and Manon Chamack are way too young to be done growing, Alix definitely isn't done growing, and Master Fu's height has to do with his health and nutrition in the 1830–1850 range more than anything else. so Mylène, who comprises group eleven, is the shortest person who might be done growing, and Sabine, in ten, the shortest person bar Fu who is definitely done growing.riallasheng | ![[archiveofourown.org profile]](https://p.dreamwidth.org/b164c54b26e4/-/archiveofourown.org/favicon.ico)
JED1 has helpfully put horizontal lines on the graphic to indicate the height of each group, barring Manon and the twins, and Sabine's group is the lime line; she only comes up to the armpits of the group one folks (Gabriel, Gorilla, Butler Jean, and M. Kubdel). Ivan and Kim are the tallest of the teen characters (unless Jalil Kubdel is a teen character, but he's the same height), and Adrien and Nino are the next tallest teens; Juleka is the tallest girl teen, and the next tallest girl teens, Alya and Chloé, only come up to Juleka's eyes.
should be noted the graphic was posted March 2017, which is to say, after "Volpina" and "Santa Claws" aired but before "Collector" did. which means it's relying on S1 exclusively, which means Adrien's taller in S3 and my fic than he is in this graphic. ETA:riallasheng partially updated it for S2.
somewhere in there and the average heights of present-day French adults is a way to estimate the characters' heights independently of the calculation with the Mona Lisa. (which I would like to do in order to idk check the numbers arrived at via the Mona Lisa, because Adrien being that much taller than Gaston isn't working right in my head.) but I cannot seem to the thing.
ETA August:mlscience is not standing by those numbers. so I'm going to ballpark S1 Adrien at 5'7" instead of 5'11", I think, and S1 Marinette at 5'1", and figure by the setting of this story they've grown to 5'9" and 5'2" respectively. and Gaston I'm still figuring for 5'7" or maybe 5'8".
that works so much better visually. 😺
Unrelatedly: I'm confident Marinette and Adrien both speak 21c British English and if either isn't completely fluent they're damn close. I'm confident Belle can read 18c British English, if perhaps not speak it; if we're pulling from the live-action, so can Beast. Maurice and the bookseller might be able to read English as well, and I think the bookseller probably speaks it some too but I'm not sure about Maurice. Cogsworth certainly can. The rest of the castle, no idea; the rest of the village, probably not. Gaston certainly can't.
So if I want to have Marinette answer the door when Gaston shows up to marry Belle, and then have Marinette storm outside, look around, and yell in English at the top of her lungs for Adrien to bring her a knife so she can murder Gaston? That will work! And no one but Adrien will understand!
1 I think Adrien is currently doing at least one of eating too little for his activity level and driving his dietician absolutely batshit by eating so much without correspondent weight gain, because he can't admit how much physical activity he's actually getting and he can't admit he's not eating all that Camembert, but the state of Adrien's nutrition post-Origins neither affected his growth pre-Origins nor, clearly, prevented his growth subsequently. I also think Marinette is eating more than it looks like she should be, less than she actually should be, but I'm certain she doesn't have a dietician on her ass for professional reasons. I'm also certain nobody thinks she's eating more than she's actually eating because she needs them to think she's the one eating everything she feeds Tikki, because Tikki is mostly eating stuff the bakery can't sell the next day, and nobody's paying close enough attention to the leftovers to realize there's a consistent discrepancy between how much Tom and Sabine pack to take to the nearest homeless shelter and how much the shelter actually gets. Anyway, the same arguments about nutrition and growth pre- vs post-Origins apply.
Adrien and Marinette have grown up with post-Y2K medicine and plenty of food.1
The average height of French people in 2012 is 5'7.5" for men, 5'3" for women. So Marinette is a little on the tall side of average and Adrien is Tol. (Wikipedia's decade-older numbers for France show women half an inch to an inch taller, and men an inch to an inch and a half taller, than this article says.)
The smallpox vaccine hit in 1796. There is apparently Considerable Debate on the setting of Disney's Beauty and the Beast, but it looks like there's a good argument to be made for anything from 1770 to 1800. Given that the smallpox vaccine came about (the story goes) because whatshisface noticed milkmaids were often so beautiful because they so rarely caught smallpox because they had so frequently survived cowpox unscarred, dropping Marinette into Belle's village probably takes away Belle's "most beautiful girl in town" card. (Rather to Belle's relief—until she notices Marinette is (1) younger than Belle (2) likely to end up in serious trouble if Gaston catches her alone, given how much more ticked Gaston is every time Belle sees him after he's bothered Marinette.)
It's hard to get a bead on how tall Gaston is, but if he's not the tallest person in the village, he is certainly up there. (*snerk*) He also isn't outrageously tall compared to the rest of the village; he just looks it when standing next to LeFou.
Seventeenth-century Frenchmen were apparently about as tall on average as turn-of-the-millennium Frenchwomen. I am having a crap time finding anything quantitative about eighteenth-century French people, but apparently it wasn't till about the mid-1800s that improved nutrition and improved disease prevention started resulting in taller average people.
...Marinette, being 5'5" or 5'6", may be only an inch or two shorter than Gaston. Adrien, being at least seven inches taller than Marinette, is definitely rather taller than Gaston. And they both tower over Belle, who only comes up to Gaston's shoulder!
This is gonna make this crossover hella more amusing than I thought it would be...
(I'm trying to figure out right now how Marinette and Adrien plan to earn their keep while they're stranded in Belle's time. Marinette is confident in her sewing and mending, and once she gets accustomed to the kitchen facilities and ingredients, her cooking and baking; Adrien is making a lot of jokes about poor career choices, but, you know, he's tall, he's built. Until Belle and Maurice figure out there's a brain in there too, he's probably going to be doing a lot of lifting heavy things.)
update: found the character heights graphic. counting starting with the tallest, Tom Dupain is in group three, Ivan and Kim in four, and Adrien in six, out of thirteen or fourteen; Marinette's a nine. Etta and Ella Césaire and Manon Chamack are way too young to be done growing, Alix definitely isn't done growing, and Master Fu's height has to do with his health and nutrition in the 1830–1850 range more than anything else. so Mylène, who comprises group eleven, is the shortest person who might be done growing, and Sabine, in ten, the shortest person bar Fu who is definitely done growing.
should be noted the graphic was posted March 2017, which is to say, after "Volpina" and "Santa Claws" aired but before "Collector" did. which means it's relying on S1 exclusively, which means Adrien's taller in S3 and my fic than he is in this graphic. ETA:
somewhere in there and the average heights of present-day French adults is a way to estimate the characters' heights independently of the calculation with the Mona Lisa. (which I would like to do in order to idk check the numbers arrived at via the Mona Lisa, because Adrien being that much taller than Gaston isn't working right in my head.) but I cannot seem to the thing.
ETA August:
that works so much better visually. 😺
Unrelatedly: I'm confident Marinette and Adrien both speak 21c British English and if either isn't completely fluent they're damn close. I'm confident Belle can read 18c British English, if perhaps not speak it; if we're pulling from the live-action, so can Beast. Maurice and the bookseller might be able to read English as well, and I think the bookseller probably speaks it some too but I'm not sure about Maurice. Cogsworth certainly can. The rest of the castle, no idea; the rest of the village, probably not. Gaston certainly can't.
So if I want to have Marinette answer the door when Gaston shows up to marry Belle, and then have Marinette storm outside, look around, and yell in English at the top of her lungs for Adrien to bring her a knife so she can murder Gaston? That will work! And no one but Adrien will understand!
1 I think Adrien is currently doing at least one of eating too little for his activity level and driving his dietician absolutely batshit by eating so much without correspondent weight gain, because he can't admit how much physical activity he's actually getting and he can't admit he's not eating all that Camembert, but the state of Adrien's nutrition post-Origins neither affected his growth pre-Origins nor, clearly, prevented his growth subsequently. I also think Marinette is eating more than it looks like she should be, less than she actually should be, but I'm certain she doesn't have a dietician on her ass for professional reasons. I'm also certain nobody thinks she's eating more than she's actually eating because she needs them to think she's the one eating everything she feeds Tikki, because Tikki is mostly eating stuff the bakery can't sell the next day, and nobody's paying close enough attention to the leftovers to realize there's a consistent discrepancy between how much Tom and Sabine pack to take to the nearest homeless shelter and how much the shelter actually gets. Anyway, the same arguments about nutrition and growth pre- vs post-Origins apply.
no subject
no subject
and if Adrien did that, Gaston would probably respect him as an equal! (modulo the what, seven to ten years' age difference?) or as a rival, whatever, but definitely someone worth treating like as much people as Gaston himself is.
(which is probably a Nasty Revelation, since Gaston—especially if I'm right that listing the villagers in decreasing order of wealth would start with him—has all the privilege and has been putting lots effort into being physically imposing.)
(...shit now I might need to worry about Gaston trying to take Adrien under his wing, and failing that, Gaston trying to chase Adrien out of town, and failing that, Gaston trying to kill Adrien.)
but Marinette? no way. not sure he'd go straight to "there's magic involved"—not that there isn't, but—but I definitely think he'd assume she was cheating in some manner because there is no way a beautiful adolescent girl can physically overpower Gaston. (I specify 'beautiful' because I don't think he'd think a female blacksmith is.)
...Marinette is going to end up maiming Gaston, isn't she. because Gaston will be doing the same things that irritate to anger her when Chat Noir does them, only
(1) starting hella sooner in their acquaintance
(2) escalating a lot more quickly
(3) not letting up ever (like, Chat doesn't stop flirting with Ladybug but he backs off for episodes at a time and Gaston won't)
(4) not starting from a baseline of liking and trusting her (which Marinette knows Chat does)
(5) not demonstrating any redeeming qualities (which Chat certainly has)
(6) not being someone Marinette would need to keep around whether she wants to or not
(which, Ladybug might need a Cat wielder, not necessarily this Chat Noir, so she could confiscate the ring and inflict hella damage on Adrien and then go find someone who respects boundaries to wield the Cat—I don't think it's either fair or in character for her to do that without first putting more effort into teaching him what boundaries are, but there are a bunch of recent stories where that's basically what she does, so I'm acknowledging that this approach exists as an option. nonetheless, she needs a Cat wielder and Chat Noir's right there and they already know how each other operates.)
(she does not need Gaston. so she might be a lot more willing to consider maiming and murder.)